[Snek]

[...] NC's carry laws need to be updated [...]

They really do. And badly so. The fact that we can have this lengthy discussion on the topic proves this.

I've lived in a number of places both in the US and Europe. A few years ago I was staying out in Indiana. When you ask someone (gun shop guys, cops, random gun owners) anywhere in that state on how to properly transport pistol or long gun the answer is always clear, it is always the same and, also, it is executable with any type of vehicle. No ifs, whens and buts.

Europe, and in particular the country I stay in right now, is super tough with gun laws. Imagine a country run by anti gun democrats. But, for the people that - do - own guns legally, the instructions on how to transport them are clear cut and not open to interpretation.

It seems to me that in NC these laws are made vague almost by intention. I hope that we can get GRNC on this issue. Really, this shouldn't be a partisan issue....

 

[Combat Diver]

True, that is why we need constitutional carry in NC. Carrying a gun open or concealed is legal whether on your person, vehicle or property.

 

[JohnMc]

It seems to me that in NC these laws are made vague almost by intention.

I have thought that as well; it's either by intent, ignorance, or stupidity.

 

[JohnMc]

True, that is why we need constitutional carry in NC. Carrying a gun open or concealed is legal whether on your person, vehicle or property.

Agreed, with the stipulation of real constitutional carry as you describe, not what Florida called the same; they still can't open carry - constitutional carry my behind.

 

[joker18]

Many departments judge this question by accessibility which can be subjective by dept. The dept. I was in defined "accessible" as within arms reach.
Unloaded with ammo stored elsewhere would be deemed not accessible however this is just one department out of how many?
Used to be in the 70's, LEOs', especially the NC Highway Patrol liked long guns to be stored in a back window truck rack. A friend of mine was stopped back then ny a state trooper who noticed he had a cased shotgun leaning against the passenger seat. He suggested to my friend he invest in a set of truck racks. The trooper stated he liked to see everything that was there when he walked up.

 

[JohnMc]

Many departments judge this question by accessibility which can be subjective by dept. The dept. I was in defined "accessible" as within arms reach.
Unloaded with ammo stored elsewhere would be deemed not accessible however this is just one department out of how many?
Used to be in the 70's, LEOs', especially the NC Highway Patrol liked long guns to be stored in a back window truck rack. A friend of mine was stopped back then ny a state trooper who noticed he had a cased shotgun leaning against the passenger seat. He suggested to my friend he invest in a set of truck racks. The trooper stated he liked to see everything that was there when he walked up.

Exactly. It's subject to "discretion" which can be, all to easily, synonymous with "abuse".
It reminds me of a New York City law about public drinking that Tim Pool brings up a lot, at least I think it's him. In any case, the guy who wrote it, back in the 20th century, is on record as saying it wasn't meant for folks sitting on their front steps having a drink with their neighbors, family, friends, etc. Yet in is now used very, very often to arrest folks sitting on their front steps having a drink with their neighbors, family, friends, etc.
If the words aren't there that state something explicitly, like this isn't for X, it will get used for X, even though there's supposed to be something in law, where if a law is poorly worded, the presumption of what it means goes in favor of the people, not the government.

 

[Stefani]

Exactly. It's subject to "discretion" which can be, all to easily, synonymous with "abuse".
It reminds me of a New York City law about public drinking that Tim Pool brings up a lot, at least I think it's him. In any case, the guy who wrote it, back in the 20th century, is on record as saying it wasn't meant for folks sitting on their front steps having a drink with their neighbors, family, friends, etc. Yet in is now used very, very often to arrest folks sitting on their front steps having a drink with their neighbors, family, friends, etc.
If the words aren't there that state something explicitly, like this isn't for X, it will get used for X, even though there's supposed to be something in law, where if a law is poorly worded, the presumption of what it means goes in favor of the people, not the government.

I think that discretion has a lot to do with your location. Is that right, no, but is it a reality, absolutely. Here, we shoot with law enforcement a good bit, don’t give them a reason to get stopped and sure don’t have a reason to be searched.

 

[harbinger]

I had one of those seat covers with the scabbard on the front of the bench seat for years.
When I theoretically used it, it was perfect for a leaver action or shotgun, a bolt action or MSR would snag every time.

Can't find them anymore without looking real hard, maybe amazon or e-bay. Not sure, I don't hunt much anymore.

 

[harbinger]

It is 100% up to the officer if you get jammed up or not.
Have heard of people getting hosed when a rifle is in a locked soft case behind the seat in a truck cab because of how east it was for the cop to rip it open. Another because they threw their jacket over a rifle in the back seat and it partially covered a rifle.

 

[Stogies]

If the trunk is accessible by folding down the seats, it could be problematic.
NC's carry laws need to be updated to reflect something called "unloaded".
It's as though whoever wrote them didn't know an unloaded firearm can't shoot.
As far as I understand, most states have some number of steps before it's "loaded". If the gun and ammo are separated by more than that number of steps, it's all good.
In NC, no ammo at all is still carrying.

That's a bit of a stretch since you'd have to get out of the driver's seat, open the door, open the rear door and get into the backseat and fiddle with the trunk access. Unless your car is configured in such a way that you can get from that from the driver's seat (I find that hard to imagine).

 

[weaponoffreedom]

if you pass the attitude test

great point


Is your car not your home? As in an extension of your castle?

 

[JohnMc]

That's a bit of a stretch since you'd have to get out of the driver's seat, open the door, open the rear door and get into the backseat and fiddle with the trunk access. Unless your car is configured in such a way that you can get from that from the driver's seat (I find that hard to imagine).

It's accessible from the passenger compartment and it's not locked.
I can get to the back seat latch, get the seat down, and reach into the area without getting out of the driver's seat. I can do that in most modern cars. Anyone with long arms and a bit of flexibility should be able to it too. I can't reach in all the way, but that's where poorly written laws can jack people up. I certainly don't have to get out of the car. I've retrieved a few things that way over the years.
Admittedly since passing 60, it's getting harder, but that's an old age problem.
In any case, the point was the NC laws regarding access to firearms are poorly written and that if a cop wants to make that stretch, they can, not if it's practical.

 

[Stogies]

It's accessible from the passenger compartment and it's not locked.
I can get to the back seat latch, get the seat down, and reach into the area without getting out of the driver's seat. I can do that in most modern cars. Anyone with long arms and a bit of flexibility should be able to it too. I can't reach in all the way, but that's where poorly written laws can jack people up. I certainly don't have to get out of the car. I've retrieved a few things that way over the years.
Admittedly since passing 60, it's getting harder, but that's an old age problem.
In any case, the point was the NC laws regarding access to firearms are poorly written and that if a cop wants to make that stretch, they can, not if it's practical.

Okay so that means in order to legally transport rifles to the range you'd have to hitch up a trailer to your car? Or toss them into the truckbed? That's a bit far fetched, I think I will take my chances on this one, no offense intended. And I agree that should be clarified so some nutjob doesn't try to make it an issue even though I think if you went to court with it would get laughed right out of the door.

 

[Stefani]

Okay so that means in order to legally transport rifles to the range you'd have to hitch up a trailer to your car? Or toss them into the truckbed? That's a bit far fetched, I think I will take my chances on this one, no offense intended. And I agree that should be clarified so some nutjob doesn't try to make it an issue even though I think if you went to court with it would get laughed right out of the door.

Likewise, think of the thousands of hunters that are “illegal”. Our guns are tossed in the backseat of the truck when we go hunting as I’m sure most are.

 

[JohnMc]

Okay so that means in order to legally transport rifles to the range you'd have to hitch up a trailer to your car?

Governor Pooper's interpretation when he was attorney general was in a locked container. He's a POS but he isn't stupid.
No trailer needed, but I'd bet he'd have us go for locked gun cases.Which are expensive, but would an anti 2A wad like Cooper care?
How about the county sheriff who had to be sued to issue PPPs? (Was it Wake?) Think an anti 2A type like that wouldn't issue orders to deputies we wouldn't like?
And @Stefani made a good point earlier about rural cops, but I want to be able to go through Durham, Chapel Hill, and Charlotte, free as a bird, too.
I take my stuff to the range in soft cases and hunting, too.
I just don't like giving the government ambiguity.

And I agree that should be clarified so some nutjob doesn't try to make it an issue even though I think if you went to court with it would get laughed right out of the door.

I remember, years ago, reading about a kid hunting in the Butner Game lands with a Ruger Mini and a 20 round mag. He came out of the woods to the road away from where he had parked and decided to walk along the road to his car.
A LEO saw him and arrested him for NC's stupid going armed to the terror of the populace law. Fortunately for him, a pro 2A lawyer took him on pro bono. He still spent the night in jail, had to pay his first attorney's fees, and had to worry for months if he was going to be convicted of a felony.
Look at what happened to that YouTuber over the laser etched cards!
The nut jobs are out there.

 

[JohnMc]

no offense intended.

None taken.
Cheers!

 

[JohnMc]

Likewise, think of the thousands of hunters that are “illegal”. Our guns are tossed in the backseat of the truck when we go hunting as I’m sure most are.

The orange hats are a clue anyway.

 

[Kassar]

great point


Is your car not your home? As in an extension of your castle?

In NC, your car is an extension of your home under the "castle doctrine" as far as the right to use deadly force if you are in reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death by another. If that deadly force is a gun, it must be in plain view, however...unless you have a CHP.

 

[ncshooter+1]

When I bought both of my hand guns they came in box that had the company logo and the serial number on the outside of the box. Picked up a couple of boxes of ammo and piled it all in the back of my car, still in the box.(back of car (lift back hatch)). I could have jumped over the front seat and reached over the rear seat, opened the box and loaded ammo into the gun. I didn't get stopped and would not have known if I complied with any laws if I had been stopped. Laws are too complicated to be followed by anyone who does not have a law degree. I'm getting too old to obtain a law degree just to stay out of jail, but the good news is that no judge would send me to jail at my age because the medical up keep for the government would be too much.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

In NC, your car is an extension of your home under the "castle doctrine" as far as the right to use deadly force if you are in reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death by another. If that deadly force is a gun, it must be in plain view, however...unless you have a CHP.

Thought so. Thanks